Tuesday, November 01, 2005

Win Debates: Call Your Opponent a Nazi

Ever get into a discussion with someone only to find he just won't agree with you? The gall! The arrogance! The ignorance!!!

Old hat, really. It should be, anyway. Aside from the aspect of boring conversation, most of us know that a good, healthy dose of disagreement keeps you a little sharp and helps you revisit your position (by the virtue of having to describe it once again). Catholics certainly experience this with their faith. (Good Catholics, anyway.) A little challenge is clearly healthy.

What about those jackasses who call you a Nazi, though? ;)

Hey, I'm not just talking about the Left... although, they've been calling conservatives, Republicans, and religious folks Nazis for years. We all know folks that let the argument (or the heat of the moment) get the best of them and they throw out the closest epithet.

For the most part, we can do without that sort of thing... right? I mean, I'm not really standing on a huge limb. I'm not really being courageous and virtuous by saying that the Nazi insult is unhelpful, untruthful, distracting, and weakens the word (for those times when we must really call a Nazi a Nazi)... it's fairly obvious.

Of course, some folks need to be told for one reason or another. ;) I didn't really want to send this guy traffic, however, who am I kidding. I have less than he does.

This little discussion starts in Gina's blog, GeeDubya. (Nice place... stop by and have a peek.) The sticking point seems to be Ann Coulter and her comment from her September 12, 2001 column "This is War" (with the Left's favorite phrase regarding Invade/Kill/Convert. The discussion progresses in the comment section at GeeDubya followed by a couple of brief e-mails and then to his site. (He failed to provide a link to Gina' s blog for some reason.)

Why post this sort of thing? Hey, I'm just really willing to analyze the merits and demerits of Ann Coulter, her writing and opinions, and her column "This is War". (In this case, mostly the column.)

Nate doesn't want to comment more than he already has done. I believe his case is stated in a very sparse manner making me wonder if he's actually read Coulter's post-9/11 column (let alone any of her other work, whether or not it speaks to the subject at hand). In fact, I suspect he just decided to identify me as "that kind of conservative" and does not wish to talk with "those kinds of people". Fine. I'm sure we all have a list of folks like that.

However... he clearly didn't address the Nazi comment he used on me. (The comment in question was the typical kind from young Left-Leaners, "Badda, do you wear your swastika to work or do they make you take it off?") One more small point... I'm not "that kind of conservative". At least not to the many (somewhat) sensible Left-Leaners I know.

Again, why post this sort of thing? (If only to make Nate look fairly unreasonable, but no more than he makes himself appear.) I'd love to seriously analyze the Coulter column in a way that he might have with me.

I might also want to look at the use of Nazi-themed insults. Seriously, and not with the over-simplified "he's a moonbat" reasoning. He very probably is (he's mentioned something about getting into journalism if my memory serves)... however, that really doesn't address the real points. Clearly, he's got issues and doesn't understand the side that opposes him.

Anyone able to help me out here?

By the way, Happy All Saint's Day. ;)

UPDATE: 9:03 PM, November 2nd, 2005

Below are the e-mails I mentioned. This started in the GeeBubya thread, followed by a brief comment on my blog (when my kid was sick), then this e-mail exchange. Remember, there are other posts in Comment sections after some of these posts.

From Badda-Blogger to Nate on Wednesday October 26th at 20:08 -0700 PDT...
The questions are in the same spot that I left them...
GeeDubya's blog in the Comments section.

That's the best place for the answers.


From Badda-Blogger to Nate on Thursday October 27th at 10:21 -0700 PDT...
You've bailed, but you've mischaracterized me and put words in MY mouth, too.

More comments are on GeeDubya's blog:

You may be taking this as an insult, but I'm merely responding to comments you've made... calmly and reasonably. I invite you to continue to do the same.

Besides, I've actually got experience in journalism... you might find me helpful.


From Nate to Badda-Blogger on Thursday October 27th at 10:59 -0700 PDT...
The fact that you still think I said Coulter said those things dissapoints me. I'm not putting words in anyones mouth [Badda-Blogger]. The original quote was the only thing I know Coulter said.

You are strong in your beliefs, and I respect that, but our differences have already been explored, and this is becoming a circular arguement in which you can't possibly understand my views just as I can't yours.

I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but this is pointless.

You sound like a great parent, and as any good parent knows sometimes there just is no reasoning with a child.

From Badda-Blogger to Nate on Saturday October 29th at 18:18 -0700 PDT...
Just to give you some notice, I'll probably be posting a topic on my blog with your posts sometime in the next week or so.

It's only fair to let you know.

From Badda-Blogger to Nate (and others) on Tuesday November 1st at 18:19 -0800 PST...
Notice! Hear-ye, hear-ye! Extree, extree!
Just a call for a little healthy conversation from sensible adults.

Disagreeing with Coulter fans and then calling them Nazis to win your arguement:
[Link to this topic.]

All folks who call others Nazis need not apply... unless they change their evil ways. ;)

Seriously, it's up on the blog so pretty much anyone can check it out, but poor behavior (ahem, -Nate-, cough) is not encouraged.


From Nate to Badda-Blogger on Tuesday November 1st at 20:29 -0800 PST...
Im honored. But whats the dif between calling people names and hinting that they might be a jackass in an indirect way?

Why do you feel I'm worthy of conversation with you on these matters? From your post it seems like I'm the most illogical and smug person you've recently talked to.

From Badda-Blogger to Nate on Wednesday November 2nd at 05:43 -0800 PST...
Well, Nate... you did give me that impression. However, I'm perfectly willing to change my opinion.

You have to admit, I've been pretty fair with to a guy who called me a Nazi. ;) The jackass comment is pretty light compared to the Nazi comment.

Oooh, that little smiley-wink reminds me... the jackass comment is followed by one of those. Not to mention, when someone calls you a Nazi for no reason that might give me the reason to honestly call you a jackass... but I still gave the smiley-wink thing all the same to be fair.

Or you could just continue ignoring the fact that you called some guy who disagrees with you a Nazi.

By the way, if you read my post and the only thing you came away with it was that you might be a jackass for calling me a Nazi, you need to do more analytical reading. Surely, you can make a more useful and interesting response than that.


Of course Nate can make more useful and interesting responses... but don't call him Shirley.

Maybe not very useful and interested responses, at least not until after some of his comments in this topic's Comment section. He snapped off a counter-post on his blog after my last e-mail.

The fat lady has no vocal chords.

Remember Badda Blogger? The gentleman that I had a disagreement with? Then he showed me the ignorant and childish error of my leftist ways?

Badda, after not getting what he wanted from several emails he sent me and unsuccessfully taking up Gina's bandwidth trying to argue the air, has dedicated an entire post to this here kid.

Gee, I'm flattered.

Anyhow, I'm going to do something he says he doesn't want to do for me (not sure why, are we in some ratings race Badda?) and push some traffic his way.

Please jump in and feel free to take part in the 'argument'.

I'm still waiting for the e-mail he says he sent to apologize. As Nate mentioned in the comments, he apologized in the comment section of his blog's topic "The Right Keeps Pushing Me Left", but it seems to have a little bluster.
Okay, so we can finally put this decaying, rotten, long-dead horse to rest and stop its beating.

Badda; I apologize for the Nazi comment.

I welcome you to move on with the rest of us and jump in to some more relevant conversation now.

He also said he would re-send that e-mail... and I'll post it when I receive it.

In the meanwhile, I've added a topic including Ann Coulter's column, "This is War". Depending on the place you get it from the dates are different. (September 12th in her book "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)", September 13th in National Review, and September 14th at Town Hall.)

UPDATE: 12:09 PM Saturday November 5th

Nate just sent me the apology... although he had some trouble.

From Nate to Badda-Blogger on Saturday November 5th at 08:53 -0800 PST...

For some reason, my computer is not letting me re-send from my sent file, although I know this feature is available.

Here is the original mail, cut and pasted.

The context was there, but that doesn’t make it an excuse. I do apologize for inferring you are a Nazi. I hope we can have an attack-free intelligent conversation and try (probably not succeed by try) to understand each others viewpoints.

His friends seemed to enjoy suggesting that I lack the ability to reason, lacking in dignity, am severely misguided, am an ass, and have no life. To be fair to Nate, he asked that they be nice.

Just imagine what might be been said otherwise. ;) As long as they enjoyed themselves.


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